Author Topic: double envelope questions (possible spoilers)  (Read 597 times)

Ty

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double envelope questions (possible spoilers)
« on: May 15, 2016, 12:35:24 PM »
So I have a question.  Can a ship enclosed in a double envelope be at a complete stop or does it always have to be at max speed(light 9790 or light 14685 depending on the induction coil)?  I'm under the impression that it can also be at a complete stop but I'm not quite sure. 
So if I am right, what happens when a ship enclosed in a double envelope engages an enemy in battle.  It definitely couldn't fire torpedoes, but could it fire laser weapons?  And would it be completely safe from enemy weapons? 

Thomas

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Re: double envelope questions (possible spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2016, 02:10:40 PM »
Hi Ty,

To clarify for everyone who might be reading this: A ship with a single envelope is dissociated from normal space and time, allowing it to travel faster than the speed of light. Theoretically, the maximum speed was somewhere around Light-800 because it was believed new envelopes could never be generated faster than that, although no one had yet come close. The double envelope allowed travel at Light-9793. Because of the problems with building a second envelope around the first, it was decided that when a double envelope is to be built, both envelopes must be built concurrently. Any ship can travel in a single envelope, but only Dakinium-Sheathed ships can build a double envelope. A DS ship can build either a single envelope or a double envelope. During the two minutes when the envelope is being built, the ship is usually stationary. It doesn't have to be, but for a double envelope there can be no single envelope already established. However, the ship can be ballistic, having already been traveling using it's Sub-Light engines or thrusters. Once an envelope is built, the ship can be stationary until the helmsman engages the forward movement that creates new envelopes ahead of the ship. With the double envelope, only full stop or Light-9790 is possible. The new Marc-01 speed may be just the tip  of the iceberg. Space Command continues to work at improving the speed.

If you recall the envelope-merge tactic, the pursuing ship must merge it's envelope with the ship ahead so it can damage the lead ship with it's lasers. That's because the ships are already traveling faster than light. When the laser passes out of the envelope it fizzles because it's can only travel at the speed of light. Within the envelope, the ship is essentially stationary, so the laser will travel at the speed of light until it exits the envelope. So neither torpedoes nor lasers can be used in a battle when traveling at any speed greater then Light-1. When traveling in a double envelope, the ship is 'out-of-phase' with normal space and time, so no enemy weapon can damage it. In fact, the ship actually travels through an enemy ship or even a planet. That's why the new system of 'bombing' was developed. When the bombs exit the ship, they are almost immediately back in normal space. They do not have the sophisticated guidance systems of torpedoes so passing through the envelope barrier doesn't affect their simple timing mechanism.

I hope this answers all your questions.   ;D

Oops. Missed one.  A ship enclosed in a double envelope, but stationary, can fire lasers and have the laser light pass out of the envelope as long as it wasn't moving, but the laser would be ineffective against a target because the beam was out of phase when fired. It would be like aiming a flashlight at something.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 02:45:21 PM by Thomas »

Ty

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Re: double envelope questions (possible spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2016, 04:18:17 PM »
Thanks for replying.  I already knew most of what you said but your last paragraph answered my question. Thanks :)

Ty

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Re: double envelope questions (possible spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2016, 03:28:45 PM »
Just a few musings, observations, and questions I thought of about FTL during my most recent reread....

Apparently, ships traveling at Light-9790 are capable of taking a focused optical image at such an insane speed.  So what's to stop them from taking images of the inside of the Denubbewa mother ships while they pass through them?  If a scout ship takes a snapshot of the inside of a mother ship just before they attack it, that image can then be used to determine the optimum drop points for the WoLaR bombs without having them reintegrate inside bulkheads or other objects.  It could also determine how many support ships the mother ship is carrying and where to drop the bombs to destroy them.

At Marc-1, a ship is traveling at 4.4 billion kilometers per second.  DeTect range is 4 billion kilometers.  I think it's almost time for something to replace the DeTect system.  What happens when a ship drops their TW envelope and reintegrate inside a rogue space object?  The laws of probability say this will happen eventually unless a system exists to prevent it.

With Marc-1 speeds, ships are now over half as fast as IDS transmissions which travel at just under Light-27000.  If the GA could increase their speed to Marc-2, (I'm not suggesting they will.  This is just speculation) then ships would be able to literally outrun the transmissions. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on the increase in speed from Light-9793 to Marc-1, I'm thinking the new single envelope maximum speed will be right around Light-730. 
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 03:49:54 PM by Ty »

Thomas

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Re: double envelope questions (possible spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2016, 04:17:05 PM »
Sorry. I'm so busy working on BP03 that I didn't notice this question.

When a ship enters FTL at any speed, the imaging changes from optical cameras to digital imagery produced by electronic sensors. If you recall the time when Admiral Carver visited the Ruwalchu, you might remember that when the Ruwalchu discussed it afterward, the Ruwalchu general reported that sometimes the Space Command ships seemed to be there, and then they weren't there. That's because the ships didn't cancel their envelope and they were out of sync with normal space. The ship might be able get an electronic image of the interior of a Denubbewa ship, but I don't know how useful it would be. The SC ship is only there for the tiniest fraction of a second and their sync issues might it impossible to get any clarity.

There is already a procedure in place to prevent forming inside another ship or a asteroid, etc.  They simply stop generating new envelopes before canceling the existing envelope. As soon as they stop generating new envelopes they are out of sync with time and space so they can't be harmed by objects in normal time and space. But their electronic sensors continue to operate and that includes the DeTect system. BP03 discusses this in a couple of places where they create their envelope to make sure no one runs into them while they are near the planet Yolongus. Because the Dakinium makes them invisible to radar, other ships have no idea this black ship is out there in black space. I used that BP02 also. On the way back to GA space, the Justice had to stop and change their temporal generator. While they were stopped, a Clidepp Empire destroyer ship caught a momentary radar sighting when the Justice's airlock was opened and fired missiles at the ghost.

The MARC-1 speed is Light-14685.7, so you're close for the current envelope generators in military and commercial use, depending on what regeneration speed you used in your calculations. The theoretical limit was always about Light-800, so if they improve the generators and add 50%, the speed increases dramatically. Naturally, the GA doesn't want to share the double-envelope ability, so they hope the civilians will be content with a 50% increase.

I always spend a great deal of time examining my calculations and the protocols I've established for new technology. I try to look at all interaction with other technology and possible uses and misuses, but being human I make mistakes every once in while so it's good that fans keep me on my toes. It keeps me from getting sloppy.   ;D

Ty

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Re: double envelope questions (possible spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2016, 05:18:26 PM »
When a ship enters FTL at any speed, the imaging changes from optical cameras to digital imagery produced by electronic sensors. If you recall the time when Admiral Carver visited the Ruwalchu, you might remember that when the Ruwalchu discussed it afterward, the Ruwalchu general reported that sometimes the Space Command ships seemed to be there, and then they weren't there. That's because the ships didn't cancel their envelope and they were out of sync with normal space. The ship might be able get an electronic image of the interior of a Denubbewa ship, but I don't know how useful it would be. The SC ship is only there for the tiniest fraction of a second and their sync issues might it impossible to get any clarity.

I do remember that but i was also thinking about the time the SC QM ship took a senser image of the Uthlaro shipyard outside GA space.  Thats why i said they were able to take "focused optical image" at that speed.

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There is already a procedure in place to prevent forming inside another ship or a asteroid, etc.  They simply stop generating new envelopes before canceling the existing envelope. As soon as they stop generating new envelopes they are out of sync with time and space so they can't be harmed by objects in normal time and space. But their electronic sensors continue to operate and that includes the DeTect system. BP03 discusses this in a couple of places where they create their envelope to make sure no one runs into them while they are near the planet Yolongus. Because the Dakinium makes them invisible to radar, other ships have no idea this black ship is out there in black space. I used that BP02 also. On the way back to GA space, the Justice had to stop and change their temporal generator. While they were stopped, a Clidepp Empire destroyer ship caught a momentary radar sighting when the Justice's airlock was opened and fired missiles at the ghost.

Ok i admit i thought of that.  I didn't mention it because I wanted to bring up increasing DeTect range again.  ;)  I also don't remember exactly you using that in BP2 now.  I'm currently on BP1 on my reread so its been awhile since I read BP2.

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The MARC-1 speed is Light-14685.7, so you're close for the current envelope generators in military and commercial use, depending on what regeneration speed you used in your calculations. The theoretical limit was always about Light-800, so if they improve the generators and add 50%, the speed increases dramatically. Naturally, the GA doesn't want to share the double-envelope ability, so they hope the civilians will be content with a 50% increase.

I did say maximum so i used Light-487 and increased it by 49.99%.  Thats the same increase as 9793 to 14685.